Why I Can't Vote for Obama

[Neal Frazier]

Regardless of who is elected, I know who the real leader is.

God simply does not approve of Obama's treatment of children in the womb.

"This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,
Isaiah 44:23-25 (in Context) Isaiah 44 (Whole Chapter)

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart. Jeremiah 1:4-6 (in Context) Jeremiah 1 (Whole Chapter)

McCain understands when life begins. Even with two daughters Obama has no clue.

How many commandments have you broken? Did you support it or condone it?

How about me you might ask? All ten.

Yes, abortion is murder. Denying this fact only mocks God.

The great thing is that Jesus forgives. All you have to do is accept and ask for forgiveness.

No God No Peace
Know Jesus Know Peace

God is in charge. We are just electing a President.
Now, go vote your conscience.

[QuantumTuba]

No, I think you still missed the core of the point. A steady Republican majority could eventually result in a sufficient number of illiberal justices being appointed for Roe v Wade to be overturned, but at what cost? Conservative policies seem to increase the demand for abortion, and even if it were criminalized, it would simply occur under worse conditions.

[Anidori-Isilee]

Absolutely. But we're pro-life. You see, Marnie, the two sides aren't properly called "pro-life" and "pro-choice." Pro-choice can stay; we are very much for the choice. However, we wish that everyone--and most of us personally would choose--life, which definitely makes us pro-life. The opposite of pro-life is pro-death, and excuse me, but that's crazy talk to suggest that I--or anyone else--am pro-death. And I am certainly not pro-abortion. I do believe it's wrong. But I also believe that it's wrong to smoke, and I'm not campaigning to get cigarettes removed from grocery and convenience stores. I fully acknowledge that it is someone else's CHOICE. I will advise them against smoking, just as I will encourage everyone to make good choices and to seriously considering having the baby, but I will accept that they have the freedom to choose. I remember you making the argument that the pro-choice people will campaign against the death penalty and eating meat. (Not exactly true, btw.) I'm against the death penalty; however I understand that it's a more complicated issue than I'd like it to be and that perhaps it's the better solution. I also don't eat red meat or poultry because I think it's wrong, how those animals are treated. But I understand that a lot of people like the taste of meat and don't want to give it up, even if they also feel that the meat industry is treating these animals inhumanely. And I have to live with that.

Like it or not? How can I not like being pro-choice? I'm letting people make an important decision. I'm not forcing them to do something they don't want to do. Marnie, I am pro-life. However, I do not see being alive and living as being the same. Fetuses may be alive, but they're certainly not *living*. Plants are alive, sponges are alive, but would you say that they are living? That they have lives? I think there's more to life than just breathing or whatever the equivalent is. I am pro-life for the *mother* more than I am for the fetus; I am not going to ask any woman to give up nine months of her life (or more) to something that she doesn't want.

A friend said it best. She said something like this: "Although my religious beliefs prohibit me from ever considering having an abortion, knowing that the choice is available is comforting." You can always ALWAYS choose life, after all. And that is my wish. But I know if I were facing an accidental pregnancy, I'd want to be able to choose give birth. I wouldn't want some stranger who doesn't know me forcing me to. (Because honestly, that would make me want to have the abortion because I hate when strangers presume to tell me what I can't do, just because they don't like something.)

Also, Marnie, you keep harping on the idea that women who have abortions often face depression after. Uh-huh. And women who have never had abortions also get depressed a lot. The point is, that is COMPLETELY irrelevant to this argument. How someone feels after having an abortion is not reason to make it illegal. It's kind of you to consider their feelings, but a lot of people end up with dying from cigarette smoking (both my grandfathers had lung cancer, one of which died while my mom was still in junior high), and despite that, I'm not going to campaign for smoking to be banned. (Just from public places, since secondhand smoke is dangerous.)

Also (I'm too lazy to skim through the discussion to find all your posts), I remember you saying that your purpose was to be hostile and sarcastic because of the way the media has treated Bush. (fyi, Bush himself didn't help; he gave the news plenty of ammunition. But then again, I get my news from Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, so you know...they'll make fun of anyone.) Well, my question is this: Are you a Christian, Marnie? You profess to be; you've made no secret of your faith. But I thought that in the bible (I've never read it; I'm not a Christian, so correct me if I'm wrong), it said that you were A) supposed to love your enemy as you love yourself, B) do unto others as you would have them do unto you (or however the Golden Rule is phrased in the bible), and C) turn the other cheek. Marnie, do two wrongs really make a right? I don't think Jesus thought so, so I really have to question whether you're a *true* Christian if you honestly believe that it's okay and Christian-like to come onto a pro-Obama website and start ranting and being otherwise rude (which you admitted you are being on purpose; hostile and sarcastic are being rude, imo) instead of being friendly and expressing your opinions without attacking.

[Sarah Russo]

"Christians have a ministerial calling to provide aid and comfort to those in our society who are poor and oppressed. These persons also represent our values. And yet the benevolent (and otherwise “small government”) Republican party, which has decided that it’s the Federal government’s duty to protect the life of unborn children, wants to leave those children out in the cold when they need healthcare. For the uber-Christian GOP has determined that though unborn children have a right to life, children who are born to economically depressed parents (who are, by the way, disproportionately represented in the statistics of those seeking abortions) do not have the right to life-sustaining healthcare."

Is it not also murder to deny innocent children health care?

"True, Obama is not pro-life (though he is against gay marriage), but his stance on abortion is conciliatory, rather than divisive: “We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country.” That statement is from his nomination acceptance speech. Obama is thus sincere enough to admit that though he has a differing opinion with fellow Christians on an important issue, he is willing to work together to solve a potentially divisive problem in a way that may remove the impetus for women to seek abortions. It is that desire to unite and seek common ground rather than divide that separates Obama/Biden from McCain/Palin."

quoted from this Conservative Christian's website: http://opinionstreams.com/blog/?p=65

and uh, good luck with you conscience

[marnie childress]

So we are not only supposed to pay to kill them, we are supposed to pay for their doctors visits too...Here's a concept...if you can't afford to take care of them, use birth control or keep your pants up...why do we have to come behind you and clean up your messes? And who is denying children health care? Everytime I've had to take my child to the er he's been seen... I may have had to pay a bill afterward, but those are the breaks when you have kids...get over it or don't do it

[Kari]

The problem is, our school systems don't give good sex education. Most of it is abstinence based, it doesn't work. You need to show people what to do in order to not get pregnant! Instead of saying "Don't have sex!" we need to be saying "Well, we' rather you no have sex, but if you do, it's okay! Here's what you need to not get pregnant." You can't have horrible sex ed and then make abortion illegal, it's just not going to work!

[marnie childress]

No, there needs to be a return to moral standards that have disappeared in this country for so long...kids need to understand that there are consequences for their actions and that ultimately it's up to them to make the right choices or deal with the consequences...for years now kids have grown up thinking they can do whatever they want and mom and dad will get them out of it...too many parents are passing the buck, expecting the schools to do THEIR jobs...I don't want a school board dictating what my child knows about sex..that's my job. Kids have no sense of reality...they've been led to believe they are entitled to everything they want and it's mom and dad's job to give it to them...kids need more ethics and more discipline than they have been getting and we as a society are paying for OUR mistakes in letting them dictate to US what they are going to do. There is absolutely no personal responsibility anymore for anything, thanks in part to out of control celebs who blame their choices on everyone around them, promising they will change after "rehab"...our kids worship these idiots, and we have allowed it...it's got to stop

[Maureen Johnson]

General rants against the state of society can be found in writings from every age. "Things today" is the oldest line in the book, almost literally!

Sex education is not immoral, it's teaching about the functions of the human body. It's not a sexy, free-for-all subject. It's a clinical matter, taught by health teachers.

And maybe you teach your kids, but not everyone does. What is inherently wrong with teaching kids how their bodies work? This is knowledge they will use at SOME point in their lives (including after marriage). By restricting sex education, you give it much more allure than it deserves.

And for the rest, well, you can shake your stick at the world as a whole if you want--but it seems like an overly generalized activity that will probably just make you go mad.

[Allison]

A relationship with God will not save the thousands more homeless, unloved children living in poverty if abortion becomes illegal. Let me point out, it's also rather impossible to have a relationship with God when a relationship, according to the dictionary is "A particular type of connection existing between people related to or having dealings with each other:" God does not and will never speak to you, reach out and touch you, or acknowledge your existence in any way, thus you can not have any connection between the two of you. And I think that if you are going to get anywhere with your argument you need to take God out of the picture and look at this as a social issue rather than a religious one, or even a political one. Frankly, being against abortion is a silly reason not to vote for obama. There are more important and more life-threatening issues right now. So please, realize there is a separation between church and state, and that religion does not belong in a political or social decision.

[marnie childress]

Excuse me, I have a relationship with GOD, and I won't allow anyone to talk me out of it...and as far as the "thousands of unloved and homeless children" are concerned, what about the thousands of infertile couples waiting to adopt? WIN/WIN....knowing your child is out there somewhere being loved by strangers couldn't possibly be worse than knowing it's in an incinerator....and that YOU put it there...and just so you know, God does talk to me....HE may not talk to you, but He would if you would invite Him in....

[Robyn]

You've got to be kidding. I'm beginning to become a little annoyed with people who say they arent going to vote for Obama because of his views on abortion. You mean to tell me that you care THAT much about the issue that you're going to completely disregard everything this man has done, is in the process of doing, and wants to do for this country? Insane! I dont agree that babies should be killed, I believe that you're a baby from the moment of conception and all of that junk however, Obama is not standing on pulpits screaming I WANT YOU TO KILL YOUR CHILDREN. He isnt creating riots advocating abortion, he isnt making abortion his main point when he debates. He's giving us the right to choose what we want to do with our bodies. Dont you think that's fair? He's a man -- what right does he have, as a man, to tell a female what she can do with her body. He's a christian, but not everyone is. You can have your beliefs be the basis of your decision, but you CANNOT say that "abortion should be illegal because MY GOD doesnt want babies to be killed". That's his God, not everyone else's. If he's giving us the option of having an abortion, it now puts the decision in your hands. Do the right thing, or not---but it's you who has to live with the guilt. Dont you dare say that the sole reason you arent going to vote for him is because of abortion.
It is my personal belief that God IS in charge which is why Obama is running in the first place. He's such a charismatic man, how can you not like the guy. What he wants to do for young people in school, for people who own homes, for the middle class, and with the soldiers in the war FAR surpasses any opposition you have with his stance on abortion. He's a wonderful man with wonderful ideas. He IS the best person for the job. Mccain is arrogant, mean, and he lies.........is that a characteristic of someone who supports your Christian ideology of a presidential candidate? Mccain may understand where life begins ...he may go to church on sunday just like you do...write with his right hand like you...or whatever /he may have a lot of similarities, but that doesnt make him the right person to lead a nation. Look at all Obama has done, he's brought people together, gotten people excited for ONCE, and given us all hope. I want a president I can look up to, who my children can look up to, and who other nations get along with.
You wanna talk about commandments, ok but start with Mccain. He's a liar and as we all know, liars will have a reserved place in the lake of fire. Are you condoning lying? The bible says you must be humble, is Mccain that too? The bible talks about loving people like he has love for us, which candidate do you think best fits that principle? I can give you a hint, and his last name doesnt begin with an "m". Think a little bit harder about why you arent going to vote for Obama, and make it sensible.
Obama is doing a fantastic job!

[marnie childress]

OK, can you tell me exactly, what Obama has done? What he's written, (besides the memoirs) legislation, anything of substance since he's been in the Senate, ANYTHING? Not speeches, actual accomplishments....Has he ever sacrified anything for this country? John McCain did...And exactly what had John McCain lied about? Just remember, Hitler had charisma too....I look forward to being enlightened...

[Nicole E. Williams]

Neal darling. This might indeed be your opinion but lets not get all shocked when you get this type of reaction from women who HAVE vagina's. As a man I don't think your opinion really matters in this case. If you really do not want women to have abortions please make other options available to us like using protection. That's all I have to say. You have a great day.