Why I Can't Vote for Obama

Regardless of who is elected, I know who the real leader is.

God simply does not approve of Obama's treatment of children in the womb.

"This is what the LORD says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,
Isaiah 44:23-25 (in Context) Isaiah 44 (Whole Chapter)

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart. Jeremiah 1:4-6 (in Context) Jeremiah 1 (Whole Chapter)

McCain understands when life begins. Even with two daughters Obama has no clue.

How many commandments have you broken? Did you support it or condone it?

How about me you might ask? All ten.

Yes, abortion is murder. Denying this fact only mocks God.

The great thing is that Jesus forgives. All you have to do is accept and ask for forgiveness.

No God No Peace
Know Jesus Know Peace

God is in charge. We are just electing a President.
Now, go vote your conscience.

Permalink Reply by SupernovakGirl on October 26, 2008 at 11:52am: A lot of people thing like this, and I really have no problem with any opinion regarding abortion. It's an important issue, and we all have things we would like to say about it, but I really can't say I agree with you.

I, too, am a Christian. I was brought up in a Baptist church, memorized Bible verses, and all that jazz. Still, I am pro-choice, and very much so. If a woman's right to choose was to be taken away, then the line that is separation between church and state would be crossed. One of the main ideas our country was built on was freedom of religion, and that includes atheism, agnosticism, and everything else. Not everyone is a Christian. Also, every person interprets the Bible differently. One person may have very strong convictions about abortion, and another may have none whatsoever.

Permalink Reply by Neal Frazier on October 26, 2008 at 4:00pm: Thanks for the kind words. Often I am met with a barrage of profanities when I post elsewhere.

I would challenge you to find one legitiment religion that embraces abortion principles.

Contrary to what many Americans may think, the phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. In fact, there is no mention of the words church, state, or separation in the First Amendment or anywhere within the Constitution. The First Amendment does guarantee freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion.

The phrase is found in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to Baptist pastors in Danbry, Connecticut in 1802 in which he gave his opinion of the establishment clause of the First Amendment and then felt that this was "building a wall of separation between church and state." At best this was a commentary on the First Amendment, from an individual who was in France when the Constitution and Bill of Rights were drafted.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart." It would be hard to mis-interpret this verse.

I applaud your upbringing. I would encourage you to connect with God on a deeper level. There are so many choices that women have today. The choice to kill is really hard to fathom. You should encourage and promote life.

Permalink Reply by Merrg on October 26, 2008 at 7:41pm: "I would challenge you to find one legitiment religion that embraces abortion principles."

My Unitarian Universalist faith tells me to make my own personal decisions about issues such as these, and not to force my beliefs upon others. See http://www.uua.org/socialjustice/socialjustice/statements/20271.shtml for the official statement, originally written and agreed upon in 1978.

Now, Unitarian Universalism may not be your idea of a legitimate religion- we are outspokenly liberal, and not all UUs believe in God. But I went to Sunday School every week until I grew up, we read the Bible and learned about Christianity, and we also learned about Islamic and Hindu and Wiccan and Buddhist and Jewish and Taoist and atheist belief systems, as well as others, and not once did we say that one was wrong and one was right, they were all just different. I still go to church every Sunday, and I still sit in a pew with my family and listen to prayers and hymns and sermons and think about what is right and good in the world and how I can make the world better and how I can be a better person myself.

And just to let you know, I'm not an atheist. I was raised both UU and Catholic, and identify with both, although more so with the UU faith. Officially, I am agnostic and more importantly, humanist.

For an explanation of where the UU belief in abortion rights comes from:
http://www.uua.org/visitors/uuperspectives/index.shtml
http://www.uua.org/visitors/beliefswithin/index.shtml

Also, although I can't really speak for them, I would challenge you to look at the United Church of Christ and see where they officially stand on the question of abortion.

Permalink Reply by Neal Frazier on November 3, 2008 at 7:49am: WHEREAS, right to choice on contraception and abortion are important aspects of the right of privacy, respect for human life and freedom of conscience of women and their families;

This statement depends on the definition of 'human life". Certainly no respect for the "unborn life". If NASA discovered this same unborn life on Mars they certainly would have no reservations about discovering life.

Permalink Reply by Merrg on November 5, 2008 at 8:55pm: The scientific definition of life, and the type of life being looked for on other planets, includes all primitive plants, animals, and single-celled organisms.
Do you have a moral code against using bacterial-killing soap? how about against spraying your lawn with pesticides and weed-killers? Or even eating nice, juicy, chicken meat?
If you would argue that all forms of life are sacred, do you include the amoeba?

The argument is not about whether any mass of cells is living in the broadest scientific terms of the word, it's about whether a particular mass of cells, those in the human womb, are living in terms of having sentience and having a soul- specifically, a "human life".

So the Mars analogy is pointless.

Yes, I believe the most basic, formative mass of cells in the human womb is alive according to scientific definition- No, I do not believe it is alive in the sense of having a soul and having that undefinable characteristic of "humanity", and therefore, I do not believe it is wrong to abort in the early stages of pregnancy.

I understand and respect your belief that the early fetus is a human life, and I don't know who's truly right.

That is, in fact, why I think it should be an individual decision, and not something for the government to mandate.

Permalink Reply by Marina on November 3, 2008 at 8:57pm: It's great to hear from someone who has had almost the same experience I've had when it comes to religion. Sometimes it's hard to describe how my faith works. I have yet to hear it better put then you have. Thanks.

Permalink Reply by Merrg on November 5, 2008 at 9:02pm: =) no problem. It's good to know my explanation makes sense to other UUs- I've spent a lot of time figuring out how best to explain it, because it is really challenging to describe.

Permalink Reply by Katie on October 26, 2008 at 7:56pm: "I would challenge you to find one legitiment religion that embraces abortion principles."

How about people who don't believe in a religion? There are a lot more of us than you think. I'm an atheist, so I decide what's right or wrong for myself-and I think abortion is right.

Also, there are many people who accept the fact that relgion was created thousands of years ago and things have changed. They don't have to take the bible, or any other religious book, literally. They can decide what they want and don't want to believe, and it isn't your place to judge them.

Permalink Reply by Neal Frazier on November 3, 2008 at 8:01am: I'll pray for you.

The Bible is the most studied maunsctipt from both sides of the asile. Check out, "The Case For Christ' by Lee Strobel. He was a non-believer like yourself. Funny thing after he completed this work his view was changed.

Permalink Reply by Audrey on October 26, 2008 at 9:19pm: I, personally, am anti-abortion but pro-choice. Why?

The issue of abortion is a complicated one, because it is lose-lose. If legal, it can be used as a scapegoat or form of birth control, which is definitely murder. And definitely wrong. However, if it isn't legal, the people who really want abortions will simply go to another country or have illegal ones performed, which are harmful to both the mother and the child. And, if the child is--for some reason--guaranteed to be too weak to survive more than a few minutes outside the womb, is it right to put both child and mother through the pain of the childbirth process? And what about women who are raped? Should they have to live with evidence of an act that ruined their lives for 9 months (possibly longer)? Or if a girl cannot face her boyfriend/parents with the news knowing she'll be beaten, will she willingly fall down the stairs or (it was a case on the news once) attempt an abortion with herself using a coat hanger?

This isn't necessarily an issue revolving around religion or morals. It is most importantly, an issue regarding harm that may be inflicted on not one, but two of the involved parties if an abortion cannot take place. It's called Pro-Choice, but that doesn't make it an easy choice.

Separation of Church and State (a strong belief of our founding fathers, be it in the Constitution or not) was an idea first supported by the Anabaptists in the 17c. They were, ironically, persecuted for their beliefs by their governments. Countries that can't separate their government and religion turn into Iraq, Pakistan, or countless others...

Permalink Reply by Neal Frazier on November 3, 2008 at 8:41am: Every point you make points directly at having a great realtionship with God. When this exists, nothing else matters. One understands that it is God's choice. the only choice would be the choice of life.

Fear (reverence) of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

Again;

Contrary to what many Americans may think, the phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. In fact, there is no mention of the words church, state, or separation in the First Amendment or anywhere within the Constitution. The First Amendment does guarantee freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion.

Permalink Reply by Audrey on November 3, 2008 at 9:07pm: I'm pretty sure it is, but I can't state the exact clause. Check "Establishment Clause" as the person below me suggests. Regardless of whether it exists or not, the founding fathers *did* state that it was one of the main ideas on which our country was founded.

And wasn't it God who chose to give humans the gift of free will? If he wanted them to impose their beliefs on others, he wouldn't have bothered.